Plato insists that each man must have control over the base parts of his soul. He argues that the three components of the soul are the calculating, the spirited (emotive) and the desiring. "To produce justice," he says, "[is] to establish the parts of the soul in a relation of mastering, and being mastered by, one another that is according to nature" (444e). The calculating and the spirited are the productive parts of the soul, and are therefore superior to the desiring part. The calculating is the most rational part, and should rule over the spirited.
The noblest man is the man who has the best self-control. In other words, it is the man whose calculating part best controls his emotions and desires. Plato says, "The nobler [a man] is, won't he be less capable of anger" (440b). Furthermore, a noble man should strive for moderation, which is achieved when his soul is in harmony with itself. The soul is in harmony "when the ruling part and the two ruled parts are of the single opinion that the calculating part ought to rule and don't raise faction against it" (442c). For a man to achieve true mastery over his emotions and desires, his emotions and desires must not challenge the authority of his rationality.
Logically, mastery of internal desires results in mastery of external actions. Plato argues that a noble, moderate man does not filch money, rob temples, or commit betrayal (442e). The same man minds his own business, much as his internal parts mind their own business, and does not meddle in other people's affairs (443d). For these reasons, Plato asserts that self-mastery is a crucial part of any respectable man.
-Sarah Y
Sarah,
ReplyDeleteThis is a wonderfully clear and interesting post. The part that I found most interesting was the last paragraph, where you talked about the external rewards of internal mastery. I would love to hear more about the argument- while what you've written is clear and proved really well, I almost don't feel like it's done. I want to know- why don't you think the moderate man "commits betrayal?" How does his moderation change his life? You say he minds his own business, but what is this man's business? It's a good thing that you've left me asking questions- it means you got me thinking. If it were going to be a longer paper, though, I might consider answering just a few of them. Great work! -Kathryn
You state: "The noblest man is the man who has the best self-control."
ReplyDeleteI wonder, does this thought follow through when Plato later argues that a just man will act unjustly if he believes he can get away with it?
I agree with Kathryn, I especially enjoyed the last paragraph. And I agree that self-mastery is a crucial part of any respectable man. Good job! -Julia
Sarah Y---
ReplyDeleteYou've done a very nice job responding to a complicated question. I agree with Kathryn and Julia's assessment that this is well written and clear (and is the type of writing that seems to lead to a longer paper). I wonder this:
When you say: "For a man to achieve true mastery over his emotions and desires, his emotions and desires must not challenge the authority of his rationality" do you think that this means the true master of self is the person who simply does not have any desire or appetite (or who only desires things that are logical and rational to want)?
Thanks for your comments!
ReplyDeleteKathryn--I think that a noble man (a man who has the right internal hierarchy) is better than a man with no self-control at all. Still, a man without internal harmony is not at peace with himself and is therefore less productive. This is easy to prove if we widen our view to the city. If the classes of a city cannot work together, the city will hav a hard time making progress. Also, a man with internal harmony would be relatively happy and content.
Julia--Honestly, I don't remember exactly what Plato says later about a just man acting unjustly when he thinks he can get away with it. I can look that up. My own idea of a just man does NOT allow for that kind of double-sidedness. I think a just person is honest and just to the core, regardless of external rewards. Elise/Jamie, is it OK to use my impression instead of Plato's? Or how could I clarify that more?
Elise--In terms of human relationships and hierarchies of power, "true mastery" is a very idealistic concept. I think that most masters strive to reach the static point of true mastery, but never quite do. (Like in mathematical problems in which you never quite reach zero.) I wrote above about a very static form of internal mastery. I suppose, though, that a dynamic internal mastery--with which the person feels emotions and desires, and works to control them--could also be a mode of almost complete control.
1. Yes, it is actually what you want to do -- use your own impressions. Be clear that you have a true understanding of what Plato is saying.
ReplyDelete2. Now you can't wait for Hegel. You will be very excited to read his dialectic "Lordship and Bondage" which is more commonly known as the "Master/Slave Dialetic"
Sarah- I like this!
ReplyDeleteBut!! thoughts: you said that the calculating part is the most rational, but given that thirst is the prime example given for a "desire" and thirst is clearly necessary for survival, is it possible that the part that loves and desires (and specifically hungers and thirsts) is the more rational? also, the part of the soul that is calculating and controlling mentally can be easily damaged, but the part that desires and hungers and thirsts will continue to hunger and thirst no matter what happens to the rest of the body or soul.
Also not sure what I'm saying here, just sort of spewing out thoughts.
Sarah,
ReplyDeleteWhat is the self in self-mastery. Are we to lose ourselves in rational calculation. Don't we want to hold on to irrational parts of our selves? I liked Molly's question. Don't our appetites have a reason of their own?
Is Plato copping out by trying to reduce power to reason?
This is so good Sarah! You go straight to the point, with perfect examples and quotes. You clearly understand what Plato was talking about (props to you) I definitely agreed with Kathryn, but your answer further on in the comments sounded perfect, you just needed to add that in! Another question: why do you think the noblest man has to have good self-control and or moderation (and why is that connected to harmony?) just wondering.
ReplyDeleteMolly-- I agree with what you are saying--that the part of you responsible for maintaining your body (in other words, the part which desires food and drink) is the most rational. Plato, on the other hand, wouldn't agree. My impression is that Plato's views are influenced by the idea that the more we can separate ourselves from our bodies, the closer we are to some divine state. His promotion of the calculating part of the soul may also be an attempt to choose leaders (guardians=calculating) who are selfless, rather than consumed by their own desires. Brynna's post is about which part should rule. It's interesting.
ReplyDeleteJamie-- My initial response to your question, "what is the self in self-mastery" is that there must be some kind of essential self. This essential self is deeper, tinier, and truer than the three divided parts of the soul. My next thought, though, is that this essential self is somewhat Taoist, and not concerned with mastering the other parts. This essential part is so truly who someone is that it doesn't have to assert importance. So the self in self-mastery is the part of a person which disciplines the other parts. It's as if a mind was a family. The self is the parent. The self is also the child, though. So self-mastery is a constant dialogue between the discipliners and the mastered.
As far as losing ourselves in logic: I talked about this in response to Molly. I think that separation from desires is important for leaders who have other people's needs to meet. At the same time, though, a leader's decisions for his/her people should be guided by some kind of humane, emotional compassion, shouldn't it?
Katie-- I gathered from Plato's writing that he thinks a noble man is a man who's soul is properly mastered. He talks some about this at 440b.
I don't entirely understand Plato's definition of moderation. Based on my own definition (knowing when enough is enough, when to stop), I think that a noble man must certainly be moderate. If each part of the soul is moderate, that would lead to them being in harmony with each other. Inner harmony would also lead to external moderation. Multiple people's individual moderation could lead to community harmony.
Molly-- Kathryn's latest comment on her post also addresses your question of suppressing the desiring part of a soul.
ReplyDelete